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    "they're young people's bands" - not said condescendingly to us old-timers, I'm sure!!!!!!
    I saw Factory Floor supporting Fuck Buttons here in Leeds last week. Good start, dipped somewhat in the middle, decent finish (most of the songs seemed to have a very similar arc). Wouldn't go out of my way to catch them again but respectable enough as a support
    It was a bit flippant, I suppose. Sorry etc etc

    The similar arc is what I like about them. Nice to have a bit of a dirge every now and then.
    I also saw Factory Floor supporting Fuck Buttons. I thought they were reaching for Throbbing Gristle, their songs have a relentless beat and bassline thing which sounds like 'Discipline' by TG and the female singer thrashes atonally at a guitar very much like Cosi.
    They were better than Fuck Buttons though. It is very seldom that I leave a gig early but I didn't last the duration of Fuck Buttons set. They are like a shit techno trance band dressed up as some kind of weally wadical noise group. I could make better tracks than them in my sleep. Graeme Rowland was right about them!
    The second Fuck Buttons album is fab though. Dunno what it is but I find some of it strangely moving.
    My view is that they're over-rated. I bought the first album out of curiosity and they usually get moved along when they pop up on shuffle mode on the ipod. I got Tarot Sport out of the record library a few weeks back and don't really get on with it any better.

    That having been said, friends who I've lent the stuff to, whose judgement and opinion I normally trust, have been bowled over. The mate I accompanied to the gig - a voracious and enthusiastic gig-goer (unlike myself) - was also most impressed. I found my mind wandering though, and was kind of relieved when they'd done.
    I thought Street Horrsing was promising enough - to me it came on like some distorted contemporary take on Seven Songs, but I thought Tarot Sport was a giant leap forward. The only album I liked more than it last year was the one by Seeland.

    The opening track, Surf Solar, is the one for me - it's ten and a half minutes of utter splendour IMO! - with Olympians not far behind.
    Yeah I quite like the records too, but something about the live show just doesn't work. I've normally no problem watching bands twiddling electronics and so forth but something about FBs doesn't translate to 'Live'. Maybe the sound system wasn't up to it.
    I felt the same way when I went to see Animal Collective last year, and I was under the impression that they were supposed to be great live.

    And I wouldn't have needed much encouragement to leave early when I saw Four Tet about 5 yrs back, so maybe I do have a problem watching people twiddling electronics!
    I've AC several times and have yet to be disappointed. there's a lot more to it than just "twiddling electronics". if it were that easy than anybody could do it. if you like a band's music prior to going to a show, you'll prob enjoy the show. if you're lukewarm about it than prob not. it's like abstract painting: anybody can slosh paint around a canvas- very few can create a unique style of their own.

    met jon savage, the writer, at a party for the exhibition of his punk collages from 77-81. simple, direct, a bit imitative of richard hamilton, but strange and well done nonetheless.
    Jon Savage - i know next to sfa about him, but he was the author of the best book about London punk & The Pistols ever published. I'm sure most people this side of the pond know of England's Dreaming, but if our American cousins don't - BUY IT!!!!!
    I did! and the catalog of his artwork. he very graciously signed both of them. lovely chap btw.
    i've seen Animal Collective only once several years ago, and they were excellent. but not so much twiddling electronics at that time. guitar, real drums and only one guy playing keyboard, sampler and a few other toys. there was definitely the feeling of a live band playing. but i guess they're different now after the last albums.
    will see Panda Bear playing solo at the Primavera Sound Festival. very curious about it. he plays on the same day/stage of Wire, directly after Wire's show.
    I agree 100%, biccio. the early AC performances were what they built their reputation on. as much as I enjoyed those shows I've got no prob with a band experimenting, moving on, and doing something entirely different. their new project, "oddsac", hasn't yet been released but contains some stunning work.
    FB - nice on both counts!!!!
    "if you like a band's music prior to going to a show, you'll prob enjoy the show".

    Not necessarily. I was a big fan of Four Tet, but live - where all the beauty that is to be found in the Rounds album was either bleeped or thumped into submission - it was a bit of a yawn.

    As for AC, yeah I liked the MPP, though I didn't think it was as good as everyone made out (and wasn't a patch on the Panda Bear LP).

    Apologies if I've posted this before, but I've just found my notes from the AC gig...

    Talk about being underwhelmed!

    Now I’m not saying that Animal Collective are my favourite band or anything. Indeed they’re probably unique in that I have three albums by them and I couldn’t hum you a single tune unless I played them just before. And being perfectly honest I probably wouldn’t have bought the latest album, Merriweather Post Pavilion, except that a couple of years back their drummer, in the guise of Panda Bear released the rather excellent Person Pitch album. And when I heard the latest Animal Collective LP bore similarities I had to get it, but whilst it’s true that it does feature some of that Beach Boy’s underwater sound that I love about Person Pitch early plays are suggesting that it lacks some of the magic.

    So, in a nutshell, it’s probably fair to say that I went to this gig thinking that Animal Collective were an act I liked more in theory than in practice. Still I’d heard good things about them live, but what we actually got was rather disappointing. Call me old fashioned, but watching a bearded bloke with a torch on his head, nodding and shaking it like some post-rave equivalent of David Gray, is not my idea of entertainment, and I’d be surprised if the rather unengaging singer who danced about a bit before rather half heartedly hitting a cymbal from time to time will ever win a finest front-man award. And whilst I don’t need the singer to keep telling us what a wonderful audience we are, I feel duty bound to point out that until they returned for the encore and he wished one of the band a happy birthday (and led the audience singalong whilst a member of the crew brought out a cake!) he’d had made more comments (2) to the lighting crew than he had to the audience (1). Altogether more worryingly, when he kept repeating ‘be be be’ or ‘eh eh eh’ or whatever it was during one number, I was taken back in time to watching The Police almost 30 years ago and being reduced to thinking "if Sting goes ‘hey ey ee oh’ one more time I’ll have to twat him".

    Panda Bears Beach Boy-like vocals helped provide some much needed colour although the act picked up towards the end when he stopped singing and started playing live drums, injecting a bit of urgency into proceedings that led to me tapping my feet and actually enjoying myself. Prior to this I've got to say things had pretty much left me cold. Sure there were some decent beats but despite their chest-hitting volume they didn’t do a lot for me as between those heavy thuds and the shrilly keyboard sounds that brought to mind things like the You Got The Love and Baba O’Riley intro’s stretched out forever, there was very little in the middle of that wall of sound.

    That’s not to say that there weren’t some interesting passages along the way, but Animal Collective’s main problem for me is their apparent lack of heart and soul. Too much of the performance felt dull and had me thinking that they wrere about as engaging as Eva Cassidy. It was nice to spend an evening with my mate, but otherwise I couldn’t help thinking I would have had a better time staying at home and listening to the Panda Bear LP.
    Factory Floor were louuuuuuuuuuuud. Ears are still ringing.
    They also just played the EP, more or less (though there was ten or so mins of beeping/bleeping before they came on stage that was coming from their equipment, not sure if that counts). R Swimmer is right; she was channelling Cosey right down to the haircut. If she'd sat down, you could sue.
    Lying (only track on their myspaz) is ok. Try this lot - similar vein
    Just got back from seeing Faust. A great performance!
    did they get the chainsaw out!?!?!?!

    & Einsturzende Neubauten have announced a 30 year celebration date at Kentish Town Forum in October. That's a tempter!