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  1.  
    The Wiki says

    "Post-punk is a rock music movement with its roots in the late 1970s, following on the heels of the initial punk rock explosion of the mid-1970s. The genre retains its roots in the punk movement but is more introverted, complex and experimental.[1] Post-punk laid the groundwork for alternative rock by broadening the range of punk and underground music, incorporating elements of Krautrock (particularly the use of synthesizers and extensive repetition), Jamaican dub music (specifically in bass guitar), American funk, studio experimentation, and even punk's traditional polar opposite, disco, into the genre.

    Classic examples of post-punk outfits include Public Image Limited, The Fall, Joy Division, New Order, New Model Army, Sad Lovers and Giants, Talking Heads, Gang of Four, The Chameleons, Magazine, Wire, Echo & the Bunnymen, The Birthday Party, Orange Juice, The Psychedelic Furs, Adam and the Ants, The Sound, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Lords of the New Church, The Monochrome Set, Section 25, Killing Joke, The Cure, Bauhaus, Devo, The Jesus and Mary Chain, and Tubeway Army. Bands such as Crass also came within the scope of post-punk, as with several outfits formed in the wake of traditionally punk rock groups: Magazine was formed by Howard Devoto, a former member of Buzzcocks, for instance, and Public Image Ltd derived from the Sex Pistols. A list of predecessors to the post-punk genre of music might include Television, whose album Marquee Moon, although released in 1977 at the height of the punk movement, is considered definitively post-punk in style. Other groups, such as The Clash, remained predominantly punk in nature, yet were inspired by the experimentalism of the post-punk movement, most notably in their album Sandinista!."

    I don't buy that. It's a very poor definition. Listen to Crass and then The Monochrome Set and tell me that they have anything in common except perhaps the time and the place. Are Go4 Post Punk because they were punk and then evolved or were they always Post Punk? It can't just mean After Punk as you can hardly accuse Siouxsie and the Banshees as being after Punk although they certainly did evolve musically.

    Is it just a meaningless term that tries to encapsulate the wide variety of music that emerged in Punks aftermath?

    U.
  2.  
    more or less...
    btw, the jesus and mary chain were much later and had nothing to do with post-punk.
  3.  
    I try not to get worked up about what is punk, what is post punk, what is new wave etc. They are just convenient archetypes for things that happened around the same time. I don't have a problem with labelling music, it helps us navigate the vast tracts of music we all have to wade through to find stuff we're interested in, just like botanists do with plants and algae and so forth.

    Wire (Mk1) are referred to as 'post punk' mainly to distinguish them from the safety pins and gobbing aspect of punk, it's just a convenient tag. It gets murky when bands change tack during their long careers. You could call Scritti Politti a Post Punk band with the early stuff, but some people will only know them as a glamorous 80s pop outfit....all Fairlight synths and eyeliner.

    Maybe we should edit the Wiki entry, folks on this forum know their punk/post punk pretty well!
    I agree with Biccio, JAMC really shouldn't be in that list!
  4.  
    In its day, the term New Wave was widely used to describe what appears to be a big overlap with 'Post Punk'. I would call Scritti Politti a 'Post Punk' band if I had to but only because they weren't Punk and they were different and they were of that age but that says absolutely nothing about them.

    The problem with objecting to JAMC seems only one of time ie they were late yet Pere Ubu and Television were early and pre-dated the genre. The more you look the less you find of any use. Bloody journalists, like politicians, they should be ignored.

    I asked 3 mates who are all into prog rock if they could agree a definition of it. The consensus was that the presence of a keyboard was mandatory. It's all hopeless really, I'll get me coat.

    U.
  5.  
    I don't have a problem w journalists or critics per se. when they get it right, fine. when they're wrong they need to be called out. speaking of which I read a piece from the brit paper Independent which gave complete credit to malcolm m for providing mr j rotten with his classic punk rock get up. excuse me, but at the very least the (creative?) exchange can only be described as mutual. from johnny's side, he's the one who had the green hair, safety pins, and torn I Hate Pink Floyd t-shirt. and truth be told MM got his inspiration for the fashion side of punk rock years earlier on a trip to ny where he came across the glammed up ny dolls.

    as for "post-punk", don't have a problem with that either. my view is that music, like anything, needs to be defined in order for discussed it in an intelligent way. when the term "post-punk" is used you know right away that the topic is about a rock situation beginning around 1980. we're not talking classical or jazz. prior to punk it was just "rock", either from england or the u.s. mostly well known acts, and really not all that many. so punk stripped away all that rock star shit and opened the door for other creative musicians to do their thing. so around 1980, you had this new thing, guys working in a rock situation that was definitely not old school r'n'r, but it wasn't exactly punk rock either. hence the term "post-punk". for me post punk signifies the time when "experimental" and " alternative" became the norm. clearly we're not talking new wave, ie, Blondie, Elvis C, Nick Lowe, Squeeze. or pure pop like Abba. post punk is not a one size fits all category, but I think it's a useful label as an introduction to a darker and edgier kind of rock that, like any great artistic movement, has lots of different influences and styles.
  6.  
    You mean it doesn't mean John The Postman?
  7.  
    Interesting topic, but the prob with wiki is thatit's justthat persons definition/pov! 'post punk' was a massive umbrellaterm thatincluded a multitude of differentstyles thatgrewout of punk. Thus I would agree that Crass were not post punk - theyhad theirowngenre of 'anarchopunk' buti'd agree with most of the other bands.

    I use the termqjite alot as aneasy reference term, but it contains artists of such diverse themes that it is just as misleading as useful!

    I hope this is readable as I'm away n using mrs' iPhone which has a dodgykeyboard!
  8.  
    My personal interpretation/usage of the term is that it is a very broad definition, not even really a genre - for example, I described 23 Skidoo recently as a post-punk industrial/funk band, the post-punk part relating to the when and where more than any particuar part of their sound (apart from I suppose experimentation and a fair degree of independence).
  9.  
    Not wanting to flog a dead horse but I would agree that it is not a musical genre because it seems to be defined in terms of time. Surely a genre defines a type of music and anyone playing in that style is in that genre irrespective of when thay played?

    By lacking a style and being time limited, along with all the other criticisms of it, it becomes what most people seem to agree it is ie different, not punk music from around 1979 +/- a few years, largely British.
  10.  
    "I would agree that it (P-Punk) is not a musical genre"

    Lots of art/music movements are not defined as "genres". no one could call themselves a "renaissance" painter today. or describe themselves as a "Big Band" (1940's) musician. or a contemporary "Brit Invasion" band. whether something is useful or meaningless is really rather subjective. Punk is a musical genre as well as an social movement, art form, and a lowbrow
    and highbrow fashion statement. it's not the actual words as the context in which they are used.
  11.  
    While I agree Post Punk isn't a genre as such (it is a historical label) I don't agree that genres cannot be bound to a time. Northern Soul for example is very much a time-bound genre although arguably that is partly due to a sentimental set of arbitrary rules applied by it's followers. That doesn't preclude anyone recording a song tomorrow and calling it 'Northern Soul' but that would immediately imply some slavish pastiche and of course yer true Wigan Casino folk would object.