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    yes, i would say Mission of Burma-- indeed a great band!-- was IbW. a year or two ago they played "dot dash" as an encore.

    also saw The Feelies reunion a couple of months ago--just ok-- but they did a rousing version of "outdoor miner".

    really don't see much of a JD influence in WIRE.
    Other way round. The Factory crowd were great admirers of Wire - the JD 'look' was very definitely copped from Wire.
    Factory tried to sign Wire after they left EMI, but the economic arrangement was short of expectations, I believe!

    Incidentally, there was a BBC4 documemntary on Friday about Paul Weller, in which the Woking Class Hero namechecked Wire (and JD) as influences on the Jam's Sound Affects album.

    Yes, I always thought Joy Division had been influenced by WIRE, and especially songs from Chairs Missing. The atmosphere of "Being Sucked" for instance. Peter Hook, and the bass guitar as a lead instrument, eventually gave JD an original sound on their own.
    Funeral Pyre and Going Underground are two great political songs that sum up the state of our pathetic island nation as it descends slowly into a police state full of dumb doublespeak that cons the tame masses into submission and a tired obsession with work work work money money money. Then they blame the immigrants for their own inadequacy and bad fortune.

    The more I see of Europe the more I realise that UK is a dump that is only much good due to the large number of bands that play music in the big ugly cities. Totla economic collapse can't come too soon! Golden Brown unelected PM sold off the gold reserves so it probably will happen. Time to head south!
    "the Woking Class Hero namechecked Wire (and JD) as influences on the Jam's Sound Affects album."

    Can't remember him namechecking Wire at the time though I could be mistaken. He did mention JD when referring to Dreams Of Children, but when it came to the SA LP I remember him saying he'd been listening to the Teardrops as those trumpets would tend to confirm.
    He (Paul Weller) did definitely namecheck Wire as a major influence!
    Graham Coxon and Mike Watt and Jarvis Cocker have covered WIRE


    Mike Watt:

    B.Hell says:
    "Totla economic collapse can't come too soon!"

    Hmmm, not entirely sure I share your glee and enthusiasm for this one Mr Hell!!. We all want to see the greedy grabbing bastards get what they deserve but alas we're more likely to see UK unemployment up to 3 million by 2010, hard working families having their homes repossessed, Tenants facing eviction because their Landlord goes bust, the resurgence of Loan Sharks and other vultures that will always find a way to profit from other peoples hardship, National Health Service going even further down the pan, loads of small businesses going to the wall, charities going bust...? Sorry to get all Billy Bragg loike but you get my point??!
    while at the same time the ones that f***ed it all up will carry on as usual thanks to the money the government will pump into banks and big corporates to save them from total collapse...

    i get your point.
    Yes but maybe those at the bottom will at last get angry enough to put some heads on poles.
    Bankers first!
    Where's me pension gone?
    invested in some fonds been ruined by dodgy deals with CDOs. probably.

    joking, hope your pension is safe and will guarantee you lots of CDs later on....

    back to the topic, if Paul Weller was really influenced by Wire then i guess he was able to hide this influence quite well on his records...
    everything is influenced by everything else, to one degree or another. jd, wire, and the jam all have their own unique sound. it's all a matter of context and the artist's life experiences. the jam, to me, sound more british than the other two and the only
    discernible "influence" (other than a punk style) is a soul/motown sound on some of their later records.

    when the word "influence" is used in art or music i take that to mean "directly" or "heavily" influenced. one such case would be the jesus and mary chain who appear to be directly influenced by the velvet underground. probably oasis by the beatles as well. some late elvis costello, american country and western. still, to my mind, influence is less important that the end product.
    it's what one does with that influence, and how unique and special is the art or music created.
    Elvis Costello has many influences, look at all those songs he's covered.

    Joy Division were very British indeed.
    Bleak, gloomy and doomed

    Maybe drowning soon...!
    yes, quite right about EC. he's fiddled around with everything, and mostly excellent results. the c & w "influence" is obviously only a small part of his repertoire, but it stuck out because very few 'rockers' explore that genre.

    jam i was thinking about old school brit invasion britishness! mods, who, kinks etc. doesn't get much more british than their cover of kinks "david watts".
    JD and Wire's songs are British? I dont recall any songs about chip shops. I think any sense of "britishness" evades most of WIRE and Joy Division. The Jam: now that's a different story.
    Woe to the one who holds out for too long; he or she will return to a boredom
    the likes of which the planet has not seen yet. And only by that boredom
    shall he or she know what death is actually like: nothing so terribly ghastly,
    really, just insufferable boredom on a grander scale, compared to which
    excruciating pain, despair itself, are trifles.

    -- Witkiewicz
    I would argue that a certain amount of Wire's lyrics are very British, albeit somewhat deconstructed and abstracted.
    yes a certain amount. it would be difficult for it to be otherwise. but not british in the way ray davies lyrics area are british. i think Wire in terms of writing has more in common with groups like Frank Zappa, or the Fugs who were doing "deconstructed"
    and "abstract" lyrics ten years earlier. certainly a band like the Ramones had a very minimalist approach to lyrics, as did some Lou Reed and Velvets stuff. in general, *abstract* can be applied to almost all pop music that doesn't involve storytelling.

    The Fugs, CIA Man, 1966:

    "Who can squash republics like bananas / If they do not like their social manners? / Who can train guerillas by the dozen / Send them out to kill their untrained cousins? / Fuckin' A, man / C.I.A. man."
    WIRE seem more European to me
    >>JD and Wire's songs are British? I dont recall any songs about chip shops. I think any sense of "britishness" evades most of WIRE and Joy Division. The Jam: now that's a different story.<<

    Alexander, I think you'll find that there are aspects of British life that extend beyond unrelenting Welleresque drudgery. But you clearly don't know what they are, so it's going to be hard for you to spot them within the context of a rather obtuse art-rock band.

    The Wire aesthetic is certainly European, both in terms of words and music. Midnight Bahnhof Cafes rather than chip shops.

    But that doesn't mean to say there aren't elements that are specifically British. The shipping forecast, for example.