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  1.  
    are now up! Woo Hoo!!!!!
  2.  
    What happened to the Electric Ballroom gig?
  3.  
    Held back, no doubt, to ensure you subscribe next time. Osaka and MOMA haven't turned up, either, so they'll probably be treated likewise (except for the one that'll be held over til the third series). As for me: normally I'd be my usual silly obsessive self and scrape together the pennies somehow, but 2011 is my farewell-to-Wire year, so ...
  4.  
    Farewell to Wire year? Sounds a bit melodramatic!
  5.  
    Yes, going off The Fall was soooo last year.

    Going off Wire is the new Going Off The Fall.

    Very 2011.

    Just a thought but have you thought about changing your name to Victor Meldrew, Hippriest?
  6.  
    Keith
    You've seen through my fragile facade! Yes, I'll own up: I'm simply copping a pose by saying I don't like Wire at present! And, yes, I only went off The Fall in 1997 to impress the Wire forum in 2011: it's all a carefully planned act!

    You've also noticed that I am: grumpy! Isn't it funny how so many people discover (thanks to the kind words of other more enlightened souls) they are 'grumpy' when all along they thought they just had different or changing tastes? You don't like football: grumpy! You don't like Britain's Got Talent: grumpy! You don't care for the latest sounds by pop group Wire: grumpy! It's all so simple!

    Actually, I'm not grumpy at all. I laugh quite often, in fact: mostly at my own jokes, but that's actually very handy. I think the new Wire album is atrocious, and certain comments in recent books and interviews have made me lose respect for Wire to the point where I actually derive less pleasure from their music than I used to. I wish that were not the case, but that's how I feel at present. Doubtless I'll return to them later, and enjoy them again, but not right now. And I went off The Fall in 1997 (but like an idiot I actually bought all their stuff until 2008 because I'm either too loyal or too stupid).

    Thankfully I have oodles of music to tide me over til I reach a Wire-appreciation phase again. Which is kind of strange, really. After all, I'm: grumpy!

    Victor
    PS - I can't stand One Foot In The Grave ... but I like Merlin. But not Demons.
  7.  
    So, if Wire have lost your respect, does this mean you won't be hanging around (and posting) on this board?
  8.  
    To be fair Mr Priest, you can forgive us for thinking you a tad grumpy. We've not heard much else from you apart from the Bootleg series is too expensive, too late, the sleeves are the wrong shape, there are no CD inlays, there are no chapters on the DVD, you don't like the DVD anyway, you don't like the choice of gigs for he bootlegs, you don't like the new album, you don't like the album before that, you don't like the setlist at the gigs, and don't get you started on The Fall..... ;) Entertaining though, and it stops us getting too Fanboyish with you around so don't be flouncing off!
  9.  
    R Swimmer
    Well I did post my favourite Wire tracks when the call went out, but people never seem to notice my positives!

    I like lots of stuff. What shall I do: post a list of my favourite albums or films? Music and cinema have been my life-long loves, and I confess to having limited knowledge of other fields ... not that that has ever stopped my having an opinion on something! But I am always open to sensible, intelligent, reasoned, non-combative debate on most things, and have even been known to change my opinions on one or two occasions! I even played The First Letter recently when a fellow forumite urged me to try again. (I still didn't like it, though!)

    To prove I try to be open to other views: I have bought three copies of the Gang Of 4's 'Entertainment!' during my lifetime. I have sold them all. I have kept going back because I keep reading about how wonderful they are/were, and yet ever since I heard it in 1978, I have just hated it. I just don't get it. I hate the music, the lyrics, the singing, the playing, the production. But STILL I have gone back to TRY to hear what's so great about it. And not just one play. Several plays. And you know what? It turns out that it's not that I don't get it ... no, I was right back in 1978. They're bloody terrible. But I TRIED ... !

    But I very rarely change my opinions on music, and almost never on films. I've just seen/heard too much in my 40+ years and tend to have a pretty firm set of values and beliefs ... and frankly, I expect other people to have formed some firmly held beliefs by this age, too. If not: what have people been doing all their lives? Obviously I'm open to new things, but nothing and nobody will get me to watch another Quentin Tarantino film or listen to a Radiohead album ...

    As for The Fall, I have just been pruning my 'on the main shelves' Fall collection. I've still got about 120 CDs taking up way too much space ... and there's no room left on the 'out-of-sight' shelves either ... what can a poor boy do?
  10.  
    Note: Edited for tone and to remove an ill-advised remark.

    I find the assertion that Wire is a money-grubbing soap opera that leaves us with a cliffhanger to make sure we tune in next time to be blindingly offensive. As far as being good to their fans goes, Wire has been amazing all things considered.

    However, my discomfort and concern can be best summed up by pointing out that when enough people didn't argue unreasonably with HP's view of RBT he flipped and suddenly liked it. No one particularly cared, and now we're back to "atrocious". Minds get changed, certainly, but how odd that the claws come out when there are other unpleasant suggestions (holding back material?) to couple opinions with.

    To follow up on the comment below, of course everyone is entitled to their opinion (and you are correct, no need to be catty, remark removed). But when it appears to lean towards deliberate provocation rather than simple discussion, I start to question the motives.
  11.  
    whilst i don't agree with all of what HP says, he is entitled to voice his opinion without personal insults! Just because he's in a minority, doesn't mean what he says isn't valid!

    Healthy discussion - especially those where not everyone agrees - is good (i've had several recently re a certain wedding & none of them were reduced to shouting or name calling). let him have his say & then engage him in a debate (NOT argument) - it's what forum's are all about!
  12.  
    This forum is the most lightly moderated one I know of, and so please, everyone, keep things civil. As far as I'm aware, the bootleg series simply puts out the best material it has at the time, with the odd nod to public demand. I think it's massively cynical to suggest Wire's purposefully holding back shows to ensure you subscribe to a second series. First, there's no guarantee there will be a second series; secondly, it's not like there's a dearth of material to choose from.

    Personally, I've found the bulk of the series to be really interesting and worthwhile. Jeanetta Cochrane was, in quality terms, not exactly great, but the 1980s stuff has been fantastic (especially now having a complete 'live' Bell Is A Cup—here's hoping the rest of Ideal Copy shows up at some point).
  13.  
    Well just to make it clear, the 1st series was not at all designed from the POV of a 2nd series. The jury is still out on whether there should be one in fact. Although that decision won't simply taken by feedback on the forum, there is the matter of sales to consider. Wire certainly can't afford to do it as a public service and the number of people who think that £67.00 is too much to pay for 9 albums & a DVD will influence that. By that I mean that it is unlikely that we could do it cheaper and if it proves to that this series has not really done much more than cover it's costs then it will be a big disincentive to continue.

    As far as D&E is concerned it's been held back for other reasons. We actually plan to re-release it as a full release (I think I mentioned this on another forum thread). Because of it being planned for physical formats & general distribution is has to be timed right and a year in which Wire is receiving accolades (and very healthy sales) on it's newest venture is not one to re-release it. Wire is partly doing well right now because it is operating under a well though out strategy and it is important to stick to that level of planning over the entirety of what pinkflag as a label releases and Wire as a band does.

    best

    c.
  14.  
    Some points:

    1. thanks for your comments, garage band. I have only just read them and so thankfully haven't read 7jlong's personal insult. I'm sure I would have found it hurtful as I am a right wimp, so at least he had the good grace to remove it!

    2. to be fair, I shouldn't really be so rude as to 'diss' Wire on this site. That is clearly 'my bad'. I have to say, though, whereas the tone on forums is generally one of adulation, my friends and I have always taken a very irreverent approach to the artists we follow: not only does it provide a few laughs, it keeps the whole thing in perspective. It's pop music and although I love it, it's JUST pop music. I love Wire's music, I love Husker Du's music, I love Television's music, etc etc: but I'm not going to treat the people behind the music as if they were gods. They're people, and as people have no bearing or influence on my life whatsoever (nor me on theirs). The only thing I don't like is when I read (about) something they've said or done that conflicts with my personal attitudes and values. That's happened too many times in the last year as regards Wire - comments made in Wilson Neate's book, comments made in Paul Lester's book, the recent interview about being a songwriter, the shoddy DVD - and consequently I have become alienated from the band as an entity. That's just me. This also affected my perception of The Fall. That, and the fact that they went from being the best band in the world to the worst!

    3.Says 7jlong:
    "I find the assertion that Wire is a money-grubbing soap opera that leaves us with a cliffhanger to make sure we tune in next time to be blindingly offensive. "

    I don't understand the soap opera reference. I was referring to Wire/pinkflag in the sense of its being a business, not a soap opera. Craig Gannell is more on point by referring to my standpoint as cynical: it is! Unfortunately my life experience has made me very cynical and on this occasion - given the comments made in the books referenced above - I see no reason NOT to be cynical. Sorry!

    7jlong: I cannot see how you can find my comments "blindingly offensive". They are not made about you. Wire are not your friends or family. They are a pop group and, having their own label, a business. THAT'S ALL. To start name-calling because of this is nuts: I would never dream of calling you names, and am disappointed that you felt compelled to do so to me on a public forum. I have expressed a different opinion. About an entity to which neither of us has any relationship, except to like or dislike their music.

    Like I said: a little less reverence really does keep things in perspective. Things that are offensive include the (non-)distribution of wealth, the employment of private security forces in occupied zones, America's gun laws, Britain's fox-hunting laws - not someone moaning about a bleedin' pop group!

    The only people I might expect to take offence are Wire themselves, and it was perhaps naive to be SO open ... but Graham Lewis's 'I hate HP'-themed thread (quickly pulled) was obviously alienating and NOT what I expected from someone I had previously admired ...

    4. 7jlong is completely correct to pull me up on the 'flip' in my comments on RBT. However, all I can say is that I put RBT on as background music whilst typing, and found myself enjoying it. I subsequently played it again, concentrating solely on the music, and found I didn't enjoy it at all. Basically, I almost never play music as background music because it's too important to relegate to a secondary role. I almost always listen to music as a sole activity. Maybe that explains my 'flip'. There is no ulterior motive, I assure you!

    I love Wire's music (with a few exceptions). I always will. I'm glad to read that they're doing well, although it's a shame it's on the back of an album I don't like! I've been buying their products since the early 80s. I've been to see them as often as I could. I have everything that the band has released. I think I've earned the right - as has any paying consumer - to express my opinions. So has everybody here.

    But when it comes to personal insults, you've got me. I don't do it, won't do it and CAN'T do it.

    Love and kisses
    hp
    PS - the planned re-release of D+E is wondrous news. Now if only they'd put the whole Notre Dame show on it and make it a double ...

    PPS - sorry for the absurdly overlong, self-indulgent ramble, but I tried to answer the above comments as fully and politely as possible ...
  15.  
    "I'm not going to treat the people behind the music as if they were gods."

    I don't really see anyone here doing that. What I do see, though, is the reaction (sometimes 'defensive') to a band that's far more human than most—even most indies—and not hiding behind a label. Wire's hardly some massive corporate, and that the pricing of items reflects the need to make money from them. Wire can't crank out loss-leaders, to try and boost sales of something else—it needs to ensure its activities are profitable, so that they can work on further activities.

    Ultimately, though, Wire's core base isn't akin to U2's, and so what it does isn't calculated and cynical—Wire's just aiming to put out good new releases and archive stuff people have asked for, in a decent format, and in a manner that doesn't bankrupt the band in doing so.
  16.  
    FWIW, I would rather see a nice Box Set, perhaps a companion to Live At The Roxy/CGBG, rather than the continuing Bootleg Series. It was a success, and most points have been covered (esp reading Colin's post about D&E above); there can indeed be "too much of a good thing" with the old stuff.

    Better knowing Wire is working on the follow up to RBT than dredging the past...
  17.  
    "7jlong: I cannot see how you can find my comments "blindingly offensive". They are not made about you. Wire are not your friends or family. They are a pop group and, having their own label, a business. THAT'S ALL. To start name-calling because of this is nuts: I would never dream of calling you names, and am disappointed that you felt compelled to do so to me on a public forum. I have expressed a different opinion. About an entity to which neither of us has any relationship, except to like or dislike their music."

    First, I had recognized the error of my earlier post and corrected it. I even left mention that a mistake was made, not slashed it out in some Stalin-esque attempt to erase history. However, it appears that it is still causing problems, so allow me to apologize to the board for bringing the tone down, even if just for a few hours. I have listened to all four versions of Ambulance Chasers back-to-back as penance.

    As for my feelings about your "they're holding things back to secure a second bootleg series" comment, I defend my position of finding it offensive, as in: "causing anger, displeasure, resentment, or affront". To follow your lead, I don't know any people of excessive wealth, or foxes, or private security forces as friends or family either but do indeed find those things offensive.

    What bothers me is that despite in-depth commentary by a member of the band on the slings and arrows of releasing their own material you have suggested several times that their goal must be to squeeze as much cash out of us as possible. If that were the case, why didn't they release 10 different versions of RBT? The 1-disc, the 2-disc deluxe, the 12-disc super-fan package with badge and book and poster and crayons? Why are so many releases out of print? I've said it before: why would Colin allow A-Z to fetch inflated prices for used copies (that he doesn't see one penny from) if he could easily sell it himself via Swim? Because it isn't easy, nor is it inexpensive. Even above Colin mentions that the first Bootleg Series may only break even. I'm sure you are imagining that since it is a download there are no costs at all associated with its release. That appears to be incorrect.

    So yes, to point fingers and suggest that Wire is teasing us with these bootleg releases in some hope to rob us of more cash down the line is offensive to me, for it appears that you are deliberately ignoring what is presented as truth from not just the band but from close associates like Craig. I personally think Wire deserves a little more credit than that (just a little, no false-idol-worship here) and certainly don't mind saying so - even if they aren't friends or family.
  18.  
    And with that, please can we all now draw a line and get back to the latest bootlegs themselves.
  19.  
    With pleasure.

    I'm thrilled to have another take of mid-80s Drill. I quite enjoy the early playing method, with that little sampled bit of Graham's bass and the growl he coaxed out of that Steinberger (I'm assuming - I know little about guitar hardware, but that's what I'm told). The other official live Drills from the Mute years - despite having other clear merits - sounded a little thin in the bass department.

    Incidentally, it was fun to have Colin's spoken "grinder - mill - exercise - drill" and "drill! drill! drill!" in the current tour. I liked it when I saw it in the Bloomsbury DVD (moreso, I'm afraid I have to admit, than "dugga dugga dugga") and it was cool to see this resurrected.
  20.  
    "And with that, please can we all now draw a line and get back to the latest bootlegs themselves. "

    There were a couple of points I wished to raise regarding 7jlong's response to my absurdly lengthy post, but since Craig has put up with more than he probably cares to, and has made a specific request, I'll do as he asks, as this could go on forever and I'm sure nobody wants that to happen.

    I note 7jlong's point that Wire refrained from the current despicable trend of multi-formats and assorted exclusives available from half a dozen different online stores. The recording industry seems ever more intent on destroying itself by alienating its customers more and more with each passing week. I recommend this as a good (if rather dry) read on a related subject:

    'Appetite for Self-Destruction: The Spectacular Crash of the Record Industry in the Digital Age' by Steve Knopper, from here:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Appetite-Self-Destruction-Spectacular-Industry-Digital/dp/1847371361/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304432222&sr=8-1

    It's certainly worth £6.24 (reduced from £10.99).

    I second djfake's suggestion. A two or three CD set covering the evolution of Wire the live band would be great, with highlights from all eras. That way tracks like Zoom, Ten, Because, etc could see an official release rather than be restricted to internet fans.

    As Wire are planning a new release of D+E, might I suggest appending the 'rare' tracks from Jeanetta Cochrane as well ... just to keep them available more widely, as I believe Turns And Strokes - the most essential Wire compilation of them all - is deleted?

    hp