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    FREAKBAG...agree entirly about Rotten and the Pistols (exept the "other half of the time he's brilliant" tag...I disagree) .....I couldn't believe the positive comments flying about after the Brixton gigs ??.....what a pile of formuarmatic crap? ......

    where was all the "sus" of the people the Pistols had apparently educated to avoid 30 years ago.

    Good luck to 'em as far as need to top up their pention funds are concerned , but as a valid (once strong) point of view band their now long spent ....mores the pity
    I think you're expecting too much here.

    Why not give newer generations of music fans the chance to see the original band play its groundbreaking album?

    How many people who attended those Brixton gigs were even born the last time the Pistols played a non-festival UK gig?

    You might have been so "sus" that you saw them in '76. But they never played my town when I was a 15-yr old fan. And for many years I never imagined I'd ever get the chance to see them. Even if the current version does veer toward vaudeville.

    It's a rare group of 50-somethings that can channel their 20-something selves, y'know ;-)

    M, don't think we're expecting too much at all here. the artist has a right to make demands of its audience and reciprocally the
    audience can make demands of the artist, i.e. encourage and expect to see or hear new work. it's about expansion and evolution. nothing wrong with the old songs, but that's all they play. again this is the very thing Rotten has been against. and all this blather by Johnny that he is never going to do another SP tour because he gets violently ill before each show. Money changes everything, huh?

    MARK: all i'm saying is i have to give mr. rotten his due:he has been vehemently anti-record biz, anti-ESTABLISHMENT, anti
    awards and anti hall of fame nonsense since forever. so for me when he's right he nails it exactly, and of course the other half
    of the time he sounds like a complete ass. he coulda, woulda, shoulda been truly brilliant, but, in my opinion, wasted his mind
    on excessive alcohol consumption. he's always railed against social class, governments, mediocrity. he offers no real solutions,
    but then again who does?
    i think you went/are looking at the SP gigs with the wrong attitude! i went along with a completely open mind, wasnae too sure what to expect (apart from what they'd play obviously) & just to have a good time. & when the Pistols came on it was party time for 4000 people - band included. obviously they did it for the dosh, but as Mark says, not every 40-somat had the chance to see 'em 30 years ago & there were plenty of much younger people there.

    It's not always about challenging/being challenged (& i totally respect that about any artist - Pistols, PiL, Magazine, Suicide & Wire included [& not just bands - authors, painters/sculptors, architects also]) - it's often just about having a damned good time!
    1. I'm not sure an artist has any right whatsoever to "make demands" of an audience, unless a health risk occurs (audience violence, maybe; I haven't seen much gobbing lately).

    2. Don't count John out just yet.
    by "making demands" i mean to say the artist (in any field) has a right to do whatever he chooses, incl. presenting radically different work than what he/she has done in the past. when Dylan went electric for example. neil young, lou reed, wire, bowie,
    talking heads, etc would be other examples. ( and rather successful attempts, i think). a fan has the right to expect a high quality product (subjective, i know). an example of this where it didn't would be the last record by iggy & the stooges. now IG is great stage performer but the record really sucked by almost all accounts. still i appreciated the effort.

    GARAGE BAND: you absolutely right: sometimes it is just about having great time! no prob at all with that. to me it just seems
    (the reunion) antithetical to everything rotten has said in the past. and he's constantly contradicting himself: "we're not punk",
    "we're the only punk band", "we're folk music for the folk", " i like the money, but i'm not in it for the money". just stream of conscious blather.

    agreed, wouldn't count rotten just yet either.
    i often think that when people like Lydon spout off when they're young, people expect them to live by the beliefs they held out for, for life. let's be honest - compare ANYONE at 18 with their 50-year old counterpart & they're virtually different people completely. i think that often Lydon feels he has to say certain things to live up to the image the media portray of him, which, of course, he shouldnae do. i THINK that he's still 'anti-establishment', but i) he's older & ii) with his success/money (which he's not totally at fault for) he has difficulty sounding 'authentic'. Similarly, Dave Gilmour has difficulty sustaining/defending his left of centre political beliefs with his vast wealth.

    one thing i said to my mates of Lydon after i saw the brixton gig was that his onstage persona has become a self-parody, BUT that he's aware of it & takes the piss out of himself. He's a far from ignorant person & is aware of how he is/comes across & uses that to his advantage - whoever his audience (Pistols fans, wildlife prog wathcers) may be.
    GB: yes quite right about Lydon. he is indeed far from ignorant. prob more anti-establishment than ever. and i admire the fact that he refuses to lighten up. he has a great sense of humor too, as well as his own sense of place in the media as you pointed out.

    the quotes i mentioned above are fairly recent, not from 30 years ago however. if all he is going to do musically is SP tours, then in my view he loses some credibility artistically. SP vs. PiL.? Pil wins hands down. for me anyway.
    I shoulda started a JL/SP/PiL thread!!!!!
    I'm amazed that Garage Band finds fault with Jah Wobble's bass, thats such a huge part of what makes Metal Box special for me.

    Would be interested to see that re-created live although I wonder if Pantomime Dame Rotten could carry it off nowadays and I suspect there is still more filthy lucre to be made from the Sealed Knot re-enactment of 1977.

    B. Hell says: "1. I just heard a techno dance track with the vocal of Religion on it. Anyone know what this is?"
    Here it is: I presume this is a bootleg mix not authorised PiL product. Not the cleverest piece of music i've ever heard but nice idea.
    "I'm amazed that Garage Band finds fault with Jah Wobble's bass, thats such a huge part of what makes Metal Box special for me"

    just reread my posts & i can't see it! Tim - reckon you could point me to where i said owt dissing Wobble's bass? It was a big part of early PiL & i wouldn't've liked 'em as i did without it!

    Maybe yer referring to the "....other 'bassist mate..." when talking about junkies? if so, i was talking about Vicious which is why bassist was in inverted commas as he wasn't one really was he? more a waste of space!!!!

    one for the trivia fans - what were Lydon, Wobble, Vicious & their mate John Gray known as?
    The 4 Johns? The North London Sulphate Gobblers?
    yeah, the former, tho quite possibly the latter as well!!!!

    did John Gray do owt in the music biz?
    Seems obvious now! I'll get me coat.
    Did John Richie do owt in the music biz? I think not, he couldn't sing that well... My Way was ok...
    Tim - always does in hindsight. nae probs!

    Ian - NOPE! talantless, posing twat!! it seems such an insult to me & other like me of my generation that, when you speak to teenagers/20-somats about late 70's English punk, that Vicious is a goddamned punk icon?!?! WHAT!??! it makes me quite angry truth be told.
    and by the way I'm a teenager.... so i'm the exception to the rule but I agree with you, most teens know fuck all about actual punk rock.
    i thought i'd read somat along those lines from you b4. may i say that, in a non-condescending way, i take my hat off to you for your knowledge of stuff b4 u were born!
    well, new music is so bland, there are maybe a handful of new bands I like but they are far and few between.
    i think i've prob mantioned 'em elsewhere - whaddya think of Ulterior? a kinda Suicide/Head Of David mishmash.

    a fave of mind at the moment is Black Keys - 70's rock with a large dose of blues! wonderful stuff! gonna see 'em for the 3rd time this year at Academy - gonna be interesting to see how a guitar/drums duo can 'fill' the venue!